G 既主修哲學,便一定要上我的課,因為我教的知識論、形上學、和哲學方法是哲學必修課。他似乎很喜歡我的教學方法,不但甚少缺席、交齊功課、參與討論,還不時到我辦公室跟我討論。他除了用心上課,還主動讀了不少哲學的課外書,凡有哲學演講必到,每次都一邊聽一邊寫筆記,在討論的環節必定舉手發問。任何人只要跟 G 討論過哲學,都很容易看出他對哲學有濃厚的興趣;主修哲學的學生通常都對這科真的有興趣,但像 G 那麼熱愛的,也屬少見。
然而,G 理解抽象概念和複雜論證的能力都頗弱,分析力亦差,經常誤解文本,很多時候連一個自圓其說的(錯誤)理解也組織不出來,只是隨意「自由聯想」,東拼西湊,穿鑿附會;跟他討論問題是十分辛苦的事,不但要不停阻止他離題,還要猜度他說話的意思(總不成每句都要求他澄清或解釋)。他上了我的哲學方法後,情況未見改善,我甚至私下當面指出他的問題,說他要多加注意,慢慢撇除陋習,在思考方法和邏輯上多加磨練;他看來明白我的意思,唯唯諾諾,可是,到他畢業那個學期,他還是沒有明顯的進步。(G 的 honors
thesis 寫的是道德哲學,由另一教授指導,他的 presentation 我去聽了,聽後暗暗搖頭,慶幸他沒有找我指導。)
G 已經二十出頭,不大可能仍是潛質未露,加上他在努力學習和教授悉心指導下,依然無甚進步,我可以相當肯定地說,他沒有哲學天份。假如他讀完了四年本科,便找工作去,就算以後保持對哲學的興趣,看看書,吹吹水,也沒甚麼問題,但他決定讀上去,要讀博士,並立志將來要當哲學教授!他來跟我談時,我真的很想直接對他說他沒有哲學天份,無謂浪費時間,卻始終說不出口。我轉而告訴他哲學教席競爭非常大,一定要在一流的大學拿博士,才有機會找到工作;他說他會申請一流的大學讀博士,如果申請失敗,便先讀個碩士,然後再申請讀博士,說時好像一切都計劃妥當似的。
G 既然那麼堅決,我也無話可說了。我知道他申請了 Berkeley,
Stanford, UCLA 等加州名校(他想留在加州),但沒聽說他被接納,亦不相信這些名校會收他。假如他堅持讀哲學,最後進了一間很一般的大學讀博士,就算拿到博士學位,也很可能是死路一條。
我是不是應該一早坦白告訴 G,我認為他沒有哲學天份?
這樣看來,他喜歡的可能只是吹吹水、談談術語的那種「哲學」。這類性格的人,未必會把逆耳之言聼進去呢。
回覆刪除f
很難說。
刪除王sir你某程度上用自己的criteria去評定G,有無問題?
回覆刪除既然他要在學術界發展,按相同準則去評定G,當然無問題啦。
刪除若不認同此等規則,可以不去學術界,去坊間那些吹水哲普學會都得。
//王sir你某程度上用自己的criteria去評定G,有無問題?//
刪除- 假如一個鋼琴老師說某學生沒有彈鋼琴的天份,你會不會也有同樣的疑問?我只能用自己接受的 criteria,有沒有問題則在於那些 criteria 是否恰當。
" 我是不是應該一早坦白告訴 G,我認為他沒有哲學天份?"
回覆刪除Based on what you wrote here, my 2 cents is--yes, tell him the hard truth. better now than later. May hurt nevertheless. I think morally speaking do tell him--in an artful way--at least your professional assessment or recommendation. For his personal and his future employers'/audiences' sakes.
What does the rest of the faculty think?
On the other hand, he had devoted his 4 years and much resources taking this major and reached his B.A. degree, there must be something worthwhile he has learned from the experience (e.g. himself and the world around him). I suppose he does deserve to learn the lesson in the form of discovering the truth. Isn't the goal of philosophy the pursuit of "truth"?
I'd love to know what exactly is the "哲學天份" criteria. What does it look like?
Perhaps G may lack a certain special "wiring" in his thought process. But gosh can we claim that he is still talented for he processes philosophy passion? Since I think not many in the general public has that much enthusiasm as G does.
One thing I have been wondering is, what kind of job prospects--outside of academia--would one has when she only gets a B.A. in philosophy?
-49er (GO GIANTS TOO!)
//What does the rest of the faculty think?//
刪除- Well, I only talked to two of them about this student, and they both agreed with me.
//I'd love to know what exactly is the "哲學天份" criteria. What does it look like?//
- I have already mentioned some in my essay (理解抽象概念和複雜論證的能力 and 分析力).
//One thing I have been wondering is, what kind of job prospects--outside of academia--would one has when she only gets a B.A. in philosophy?//
- This article is a bit old, but still worth reading: I think, therefore I earn
I knew I had seen this [LINK] before, something to share. heh heh.
回覆刪除-49er (please excuse my comment-box bombing)
I saw that before. Thanks anyway.
刪除相信哲學不同於文學藝術,文學藝術基本上沒有或很難有何謂對與錯的藝術以及正確與謬誤,好或不好之分;文學藝術多數情形下是只有喜歡與不喜歡。但哲學則不同,不是只有喜歡與不喜歡而沒有正確與謬誤的分別。
回覆刪除以王Sir所說://G 理解抽象概念和複雜論證的能力都頗弱,分析力亦差,經常誤解文本,很多時候連一個自圓其說的(錯誤)理解也組織不出來,只是隨意「自由聯想」,東拼西湊,穿鑿附會;...//
不如建議G向文學藝術方面發展或者更適合其“只是隨意「自由聯想」,東拼西湊,穿鑿附會...”,這在藝術創作上或者正是不可缺少的元素呢!
看看這位非常成功的畫家:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._5,_1948
正是符合“隨意「自由聯想」,東拼西湊,穿鑿附會...”,當你既不會畫人像,也不會畫山水,但又非常喜歡畫畫的話,跟這位大師恐怕是最佳選擇了!
他應該去讀"歐陸哲學",哈哈
刪除補充一下:
刪除題目://一個沒有天份的學生//是否應該加上「哲學」二字成為「一個沒有哲學天份的學生」?
否則可否會有“stereotype”之嫌?(其實一般說話上都不那麼咬文嚼字,只是當提升到哲學角度的時候本來不是問題也成問題:))
//是否應該加上「哲學」二字成為「一個沒有哲學天份的學生」?//
刪除- 題目本來有「哲學」二字,我嫌臃贅刪了,因為文章的脈絡很清楚是指學生的哲學天份。
//否則可否會有“stereotype”之嫌?//
- 不會,因為我他的判斷是經長久細心觀察而得的結論。
假如G的本科成績低於3.0/4.0, 有沒有出名的大學會取錄低分的人進入博士課程呢?如果G的本科成績高於3.5/4.0或以上,這麼教授的大學便是問題之一。取得哲學博士學歷而不得教席,也有很多出路。
回覆刪除GRE 成績、推薦信、和 writing sample 比 GPA 重要得多。
刪除Did he ask you to write recommendation letter for him? Just curious.
刪除Maybe if he doesn't get accepted into a decent university, he will figure out how his professors see him. --zpdrmn
He did, and I wrote him one. It's not an easy letter to write: I didn't want to badmouth him, nor did I want to say anything untrue.
刪除I didn't know that GRE and recommendation letters are more important than GPA! Anyway, does G's thesis supervisor have any thought on this?
刪除It seems to me that all you need to tell him is the situation of the job market (everybody here in UVa are panicking!). And if he is really not good enough, the good Universities admission would screen him out. If he pick some not so good University, knowing that it is unlikely to get a job afterwards, then it is certainly not your fault. And you don't have to tell him that he is not talented, the admission process of good Universities will tell him that.
G's thesis supervisor also thinks G won't do well in graduate school.
刪除Yes, you should. Not too late to tell him now.
回覆刪除It's too late; he left already.
刪除其實佢點解喜歡哲學?是不是對在學院中從事哲學工作,有一些不切實際的幻想?
回覆刪除可能有一點,但他看來真的對哲學很有興趣。
刪除很多時會聽到有些人說對某東西很有「興趣」,但對那東西沒有太多的理解,其實只好奇,想了解一下。
刪除另一種情況是把那東西作為一個「興趣」,並經常從事那種活動,以此為樂,相信你的學生傾向後者。但根據你的描述,由於他的能力問題,令人懷疑他所學過的是甚麼,而且似乎只是喜歡浸在那個環境中。
他如果真的以此為他的career,似乎日後會出現很大問題,你還有機會跟他見面嗎?
//而且似乎只是喜歡浸在那個環境中//
刪除- 似乎是這樣。
//你還有機會跟他見面嗎?//
- 除非他回來探望師友,否則應該沒機會見面了。
王sir
回覆刪除個學生既數學能力如何?
佢可以借數學訓練數理邏輯同抽象理解能力
應該可以改善呢個問題
不過佢係未又係聽左唔改?
只識哦 唔去改 難搞啦=~=
你可以絕小小講事實
「就算事實殘酷 我地都要接受事實殘酷既事實
畢竟事實就係咁殘酷....
冇天份既廢柴
靜靜在一角哭泣吧T口T
過來人的我上」
不過點解你慶幸佢冇俾你指導@@""??
怕自己一口氣指出晒佢既毛病 整死左佢份論文?
腦袋差 可以係冇天份
咁腦袋好既學生 係未見得係讀好左哲學?
//個學生既數學能力如何?//
刪除不知他數學能力如何,不過,一般而言,邏輯能力弱的人數學能力都不高。
//咁腦袋好既學生 係未見得係讀好左哲學?//
- 「腦袋好」太籠統。
的確 詞義太廣=廿=""
刪除我既意思係
思維較好 麻麻地 一般 好好 好
更好 非常好 冇得頂 你係康德再世嗎 神人等等+_+
以上既人學哲學 會唔會又有難題要克服?
哲學很難,有天份亦要面對很多難關,例如該如何面對潮流、如何建立自己的理論等。
刪除原諒我/口\"
刪除我問得太白痴 太八卦
希望教授可以諒解
同埋包容...orz
小事而已,唔使講得咁嚴重。
刪除我也認識一個讀哲學系的同學,公認(老師與同輩)是沒有什麼哲學能力。
回覆刪除但他經常也將哲學掛在嘴邊。
按你上篇文章的回覆,「天份」是指「天生比一般人的學習能力強」
我不肯定他是學習能力不強
還是哲學能力不強,或沒有把握到哲學的方法論
但我仍然堅持不對他說:「你的哲學能力差」,甚至連「你的哲學能力一般」等評語
而是當他說出一些錯話時,盡量指正他。
//按你上篇文章的回覆,「天份」是指「天生比一般人的學習能力強」//
刪除- 不,我說「在 X 方面有天份」的意思是「在 X 方面天生比一般人有較強的學習能力」。
無才能的人總是幻想愚公移山,有耕耘有收穫,事實是人不能勝天,失敗者注定失敗。乘他年青有時間回頭,快點拉住他比較好。
回覆刪除美國的家長和教師愛跟小孩子說 "You can be whatever you want to be",也許會助長他們有不設實際的幻想。
刪除咁凡高有冇繪畫天份?
回覆刪除凡(人)高==天才低? So, everybody has 天份. Kidding.
刪除//咁凡高有冇繪畫天份?// That's hard to say. Did he cut off his ear? Some people think that he had schizophrenia and some of his paintings reflected that. Was he born with schizophrenia or born to be prone to that condition?
I've seen some of his paintings in a museum. I like some of them very well.
Frankly, my first thought about Starry Night--which isn't one of my favorite-- was "did he have astigmatism?" Then I found out he may have been schizophrenic. I thought "that could be it." Of course I was just guessing.
BTW, I don't like, in general, his paintings of flowers.
In some psychology book, I've seen some excellent drawings of autistic kids. You can say they have 天份, or not. I don't know how to see them. But that doesn't matter much.
The workings of the brain...
--zpdrmn
Yan,
刪除為何這樣問?
因我懷疑是否所有天份也有客觀判別的方式。
刪除不同的天份有不同的判斷方式,但都可以是客觀的。
刪除你個學生呢一種到底係唔係對哲學有興趣呢,我覺得如果佢咁容易自由聯想而唔係求真去理解文本,呢d好似只係門面功夫多D,或者佢將努力放錯地方
回覆刪除你的學生成績個成績係點架?會唔會係因為佢成績唔差令佢有錯覺?
我之前都試過問老師我有冇天份讀,我覺得自己理解文本既能力唔差,但好難有創意,不過我兩個老師都話現階段仲係好難講我有冇天份,但我都覺得你當初應該同佢講佢係唔應該讀上去,等佢可以考慮清楚
我俾分好鬆手,記得係俾 B 佢。
刪除Professor Wong.
回覆刪除With very due respect, you should regret!
Quote:"It's too late; he left already."
"Well, I only talked to two of them about this student, and they both agreed with me."
Late is better than never.
Practising unqualified Accountant
It's really hard to say to someone's face "You have no talent in ...".
刪除教授,不時來這兒,但第一次留言。
回覆刪除你的學生的事,讓我想起我讀大學時,有個教「教育哲學」的教授打趣說:「教育」和「哲學」是「矛盾」的。因為「教育」是要給人機會不斷學習嘗試,「哲學」就唔係,讀哲學.....你係無天份,係唔明就唔明,係讀唔掂就係唔掂,唔洗俾機會,試幾多次結果都係差唔多。
我唔知這是否正確,但對你的學生而言,不致全錯吧。
我原本都想過讀哲學,報大學時都排在前幾位,幸好入唔到。在大學時讀過些哲學的通識科,聽完書都唔知幹甚麼,睇READING睇頭兩句睇成個鐘都唔知想點,知道自己無慧根,興趣亦不在此。
//讀哲學.....你係無天份,係唔明就唔明,係讀唔掂就係唔掂,唔洗俾機會,試幾多次結果都係差唔多。
刪除我唔知這是否正確,//
- 讀入門的東西不會太難懂,但讀上去真的講天份。
教授,若果他真心喜歡哲學,追求真理,同是學生,我想他是會想聽真話,知道自己真實的水平的。
回覆刪除Z.
人的心理很複雜,接受現實不是容易的事。
刪除中國人有時很喜歡有教無類,總之點都覺得要教左先算,無論如何都要鼓勵你努力,不計後果,話之你死,將來找不到自己有能力勝任的工作,白白虛度時光,中年危機提早到來。
回覆刪除出國讀書都係。總之留學就是好,叫啲學生有理無理出左去先算,無視競爭越來越大,話之你日後搵唔搵到工作。
愚覺得,這反而是誤倒了學生,好心做壞事。而做這些壞事,代價完全不用由做好心的那些老師們承擔,而純粹由聽從老師建議的那些學生哥自己承擔。這其實是一種很不負責任的行為。
這樣說,當然假定了有未來實際工作考慮的"以哲學為事業",而不是不計代價不惜一切的"為哲學而哲學"。
刪除我講的包括工作的考慮,也包括純粹是做學問的考慮(例如能去到甚麼水平)。
刪除//我是不是應該一早坦白告訴 G,我認為他沒有哲學天份?//
回覆刪除No, but you should have done him a favor and given him an F (or at most a D) when he took your classes. Kidding.
The only 天份 I have is that I know I don't have any 天份 but I still choose to be lazy.
And that's also an objective observation. Bad! --zpdrmn :j
我很久以前曾向你推薦過篇“哲學家或中蠱者”,不知道G是不是那樣的情況?
回覆刪除cyc
有點像,但沒那麼誇張。
刪除每一個人都要走自己的路,旁人(哪管是老師)沒有責任,更沒有權利去左右別人要走的路。別人怎麼說自己沒天份是沒用的,只有自己慢慢發現才有說服力。我不認為這「發現」過程所用的時間是白花的。有些教訓,一定要受;有些時間,一定得花。
回覆刪除從生存上講,當然任何事情都不會純粹枉然的。
刪除但就生活上講,設想自己近乎四十歲,仍未畢業到,唔上唔落,前路茫茫,死路一條,卻無轉行之退路,亦未必肯屈就就去賣汽水渣的士做保安。
才忽然夢醒。
點算?
讀唔成博士就要賣汽水渣的士做保安?可以去教community colleage,可以出哲普書,可以寫哲學武俠小說(如梁某某),可以.......
刪除況且佢係二十出頭咋喎,讀博士成功也好,不成功也罷,五年內就可以分曉。到時他也不過是二十幾歲,要轉行也還未遲。按美國的制度,二十出頭讀博,應該不可能近乎四十歲,仍未畢到業;不行的,應該過不了qualifying exam而被篩掉吧。
做家長,不要做直升機家長;做老師,也不要做直升機老師。
在美國哲普書不會暢銷,要找 community college 的教席也不是易事。
刪除你現在不是告訴了他嗎?
回覆刪除你一定明白我為何這樣說的了!
不明白。
刪除如果他對學術有興趣,其實有沒有可能推薦他轉攻一些對哲學天份要求沒那麼高,但仍能符合他興趣的其他學科?
回覆刪除文化研究?
刪除文化研究是個好提議!
刪除話時話 做學問咁耐
刪除有冇諗住幫幫手 澄清一點學術偏見=^=?
我有時都幾好奇 點解見到哲學人
佢地總會話
文化研究同哲學好大衝突
邏輯完全唔同
唔介意分享一下對文化研究既看法嗎=0=?
先旨聲明 我兩邊都唔係
志在搵出各學術既限制 包括哲學= =+
得罪啦=^=
我對文化研究的看法不能三兩句說話講清楚,又要迴避你的(大)問題喇!
刪除I am in a similiar situation now.
回覆刪除I had a chat recently with a PhD student who is about to graduate in 6 months. S/he said s/he would like to go for a postdoc after graduateion.
I don't think it is a good idea.
On one hand, it is his/her decision to make. On the other hand I feel oblige to tell him/her about my opinion (although students now a day is so cocky I doubt s/he would listen).
Maybe I don't fully understand his/her capability...
都完成PhD了,其實他/她還有其他路嗎?
刪除S/he can apply for jobs in the industry and I think s/he can do well in the industry settings.
刪除RandomCoil,
刪除//although students now a day is so cocky I doubt s/he would listen//
- I think you are right about this.
關於哲學天份, 我有以下的見解:
回覆刪除"哲學最重要的天份, 不是分析力, 而是truthfulness, 一顆面對現實的心. "
一個人在學習時, 往往要不停地自我測驗, 自己是自己最常面對的考官. 比如閱讀文章時,要自問自己明白了沒有, 有沒有辦法論證自己的解讀. 句句如是.
有truthfulness, 閱讀時就會偏向principle of charity, 就不會容易讀錯.
你說的像是方法和態度,而不是天份。
刪除興趣和能力不對等,應是很痛苦的事. -__-
回覆刪除找到自己喜歡的事,又同時是自己有能力做的,很難吧?