feel a bit of the pressure you're facing...回覆刪除
breath... 1,2,3... breath.... 1,2,3...
I mean she’s a real demonstration how situation could become really disturbing while the context is missed out.回覆刪除
我離開校園已久，不知wong sir在大學敢放這樣的短片算不算大膽。事前不怕有人投訴，或更甚，採取法律訴訟行動嗎？這是美國嘛，侵犯學習的人權（我想出來的），emotional distress 之類。回覆刪除
Just want to make some points here.回覆刪除
1. There maybe other reasons to feel being offended in this case.
a) Religious.(For example, fundamental Christian/Islam for example.)
b) Moral conservative.
a)and b) often bundle together, but not necessary.
I would also consider c) to be a valid reason too after viewing the video.
2. The student should have the right to express that she was offended. Just like Wong has the right to teach/express his opinion. However, given the case that this video may be offensive to some people. One should look for another alternative first, just to be courteous for other people's feeling. In addition, the student did not have a choice not to receive the information, but Wong had a choice to deliver or not.
3. There maybe other means/video can illustrative the point equally well -- interpretation depends on context. However, maybe less provocative.
4. I maybe wrong, but, in my opinion, this issue is a judgment of taste, and not a right/wrong one.
//feel a bit of the pressure you're facing...//
- I don't feel much pressure. Thank you.
//I mean she’s a real demonstration how situation could become really disturbing while the context is missed out.//
- But she was still disturbed even when the contexts were given.
Thanks for making those points.
在那些文藝復興的畫作和雕刻裡，性器官不是「暴露」得更明顯嗎﹖(我這個香港人已經都幾保守，but I don't feel offended...)回覆刪除
My town is quite similar to yours. There are so many different Christian fellowships on campus, and I often see students reading the BIble on the bus to school.回覆刪除
I heard this happens regularly at my university too. Or students would bring their Bibles to class as a protest.
One thing we do often in sociology classes is to challenge students' common sense understanding of the world. And some students feel "offended" when their worldview got challenged. The first term I taught at my university, I had one student complained on my teaching evaluation that he was offended that I talked so much about racism and sexism in class - and it was my Social Problems class. Go figure...
//在那些文藝復興的畫作和雕刻裡，性器官不是「暴露」得更明顯嗎﹖(我這個香港人已經都幾保守，but I don't feel offended...)//
//My town is quite similar to yours. There are so many different Christian fellowships on campus, and I often see students reading the BIble on the bus to school. //
- Actually, it looks like your town is worse than mine! At least I rarely see students reading the Bible.
As you know HK ppl seldom read, so I'm always interested in what the metro-readers's reading. For young ladies, most often it's romance fiction while for adults, it's either bible or christian literature. (Old man would be history tho)回覆刪除
I never went to US but I've heard enough of how conservative it is. I began to afraid HK is heading towards the same direction long time ago as conservative 'church-teaching' is gaining grounds here.
And, talking about 'being offended.'. I've got a christian colleague who showed me the breast-feeding picture in the paper, 'it's so ugly, so vulgar!'. and i was like, what!!?? I just saw a sweat and beautiful picture showing motherly affection. (the pic hardly show any 'sensitvie part' of the breast as the baby head was in front)
Why would you think feminists would be offended by the video?
I see what you mean that students could have good reasons feeling offended by real pictures of penises and breasts. However, in the video though, there aren't even real breasts and penises. I think in that student's case, it would be a great learning moment for her to think about why she still feels offended. I would have posed that question to her with respect and see how she explains it to me.
//HK is heading towards the same direction long time ago as conservative 'church-teaching' is gaining grounds here. //
- I certainly hope this is not the case.
1) 'Why would you think feminists would be offended by the video?'
First few seconds of every sketch resemble nude bodies with amplified views of sex organs in various positions. That may be suggestive to be pornographic and thus objectification of female body. There are many types of feminists and I am no expert. However, the above would come to my mine if I am a feminist. I can be wrong here.
2) ‘I see what you mean that students could have good reasons feeling offended by real pictures of penises and breasts. However, in the video though, there aren't even real breasts and penises.’
Why is there distinction between real pictures of sex organ/sketches of it? Where do we draw the line between obscene/nudity? I don’t know where the line is drawn. I remember one(maybe a judge?) saying that you will know it when you see it. Therefore, I added the issue might be due to judgment of taste. I would also add the consideration should be in the context too. In this case, the context is not a queer theory/anatomy class.
3) Assume another hypothetical case. She is taking a queer theory class and therefore she ‘should’ be more liberal and accepts what she saw. In reality, however, the student is offended. Should the offense be justified?
4) ‘I think in that student's case, it would be a great learning moment for her to think about why she still feels offended. I would have posed that question to her with respect and see how she explains it to me.’
Does the student has to experience the offense in order to learn a) interpretation depends on context or b) learn to be more open and challenge her worldview or c) more liberal and accepts of more sexually explicit material?
For a), I already stated that there might be other means to achieve it.
For b), there should also be other means.
For c), it is not the main objective of the class in this context.
5) I am playing devil’s advocate here. I graduated from a very liberal college too. I would have a good laugh when I watched the video. However, I believe in this pluralistic world mutual respect and dialogue should be preferred. Just a side point, in this case, the student may turn out to be more conservative due to self-defense mechanism. I believe that people don’t react to truth positively often, but people always are attracted to something beautiful. For example, if I am a lecturer and want my students to be more liberal and accept of more sexually explicit material. A love story with good love scenes serves well.
//few seconds of every sketch resemble nude bodies with amplified views of sex organs in various positions. That may be suggestive to be pornographic and thus objectification of female body.//
- But the fact is --- they were not!
I agree with you that these sketches were not pornographic. I only used words like 'resemble' and 'suggestive'. The same pattern, lines appeared to be sex organ like first then transformed into other object, was repeated 10, 15 times. I believe using the resemble-ness to make a provocative joke was the intention of the sketcher.
Checking the dictionary,
Definition of PORNOGRAPHY from
1: the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
2: material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
3: the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction
printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate sexual excitement
Using the definition above, I probably am wrong on this point and just stretched it too far.
any female perspective?
想提一提，其實在city範圍內，一樣有保守派市民，隨手舉兩個例子：老牌高尚住宅區，和低收入亞洲中南美洲新移民聚居地，總會有不小的部分是很保守的。這個wong sir和不少人應都己知道。而所謂保守也有分socially和economically。一個socially conservative的人不一定是economically conservative。
你們的見解都讓我要思考再思考, still thinking... Interesting discussion. Thanks.
I am a female, and I don't feel being offeneded upon watching this video. But althought I am not a perfect feminist, and I am no expert in feminism too, I thk I could kind of understand why some female could have felt a bit uneasy. In this vedio every sketches begin with a drawing of outline of sexual related organs. I belive the drawer himself originally would only want to make fun of these illusions, but some people esp women, may think that suggestive sexual image like these are not something that can be joked about. It is just like, when a bunch of men joking about figure of a woman etc., women could think this is not decent and not respected. (okay maybe this is a bad example and my explanation is crap....hope that somebody gets it) But what I want to say is, it is possible that the female student is offeneded not because of not understanding that no pornographic image is shown or the importance of context. She may had jus thought that sexual jokes make her feel uneasy. Another thing is sometimes our emotion don't agree with reality....say in this case, we can know rationally that this video is for teaching use and not intending to upset anyone however, we can still feel uneasy on it. Just by feeling uneasy, it does not mean that one can't make reasonable judgement on controversive issue...you can't say this person is morally conservative by that isn't it?回覆刪除
This is the first time for me joining the discussions....and I know nothing about philosophy....so please correct me if I misunderstand anything.
You made very good points. By the way, I didn't judge that the student was a conservative person simply because of her response to this video. I knew some of her background.