20140926

三個中國人 • 三段政治交談


最近我們一家三口不約而同跟來自中國大陸的朋友談及政治,這三段簡短的交談,形成有趣的對比,值得寫下來留個記錄。

先說阿樂的。他的學校每年都有幾位來自中國大陸的交換生,今年阿樂跟其中一位稍為混熟了,竟談起政治來,而且是敏感話題:六四事件和中國有沒有民主。原來這位中國年青人是中共洗腦教育的成功產品,他相信六四事件完全是當年大學生的錯,是他們先暴力起來,政府才逼不得已鎮壓,而且死傷甚少。至於中國有沒有民主,他的答案是肯定的,只是認為中國式的民主不同西方的民主,因為西方的民主不適用於中國獨特的政治及經濟環境。阿樂對六四事件的認識不夠深入,所以只是簡略地告訴這位同學他所知的,然後集中解釋為何「中國式的民主」不是真正的民主。這位同學倒肯虛心聽下去,雖然聽後有點茫然,阿樂也不肯定他明白和接受了多少。

媽媽昨天跟一位來自中國大陸的同事吃午餐,大概是有感於香港的民主訴求和近日之動盪, 竟也談到中國的「民主」。這位同事只有二十多歲,來了美國一兩年,而且不會久留,很可能明年便會返回中國。他們談到中國的國民教育,媽媽忍不住用「洗腦」二字來形容,想不到這位同事會同意,並說她以前也相信中國有民主、在政治上十分進步,但在美國生活了一段時間後,才認識到甚麼是真正的民主,才明白到以前相信的所謂「中國式的民主」,只是自己盲目接受了的政治宣傳。

早兩天我出席大學裏的一個聚會,碰到一位同事的太太,她和丈夫都來自中國大陸,而且已在美國生活了二三十年。不知怎的我們談到了香港學生為爭取普選而罷課,她深深不以為然,知道我支持學生的行動後,她竟問:「你們以前給英國人統治時,為何不爭取民主,現在回歸中國了,才來爭取?」我正想回答,誰知她接著說:「我認為那些不滿意中國統治的香港人,應該移民去英國,繼續被英國人統治。」於是,我無言了。

我想,希望,始終應該放在年青人身上。

25 則留言:

  1. 你本來打算怎回應?

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  2. Your colleague's wife is well educated, isn't she? If I guess right and her attitude toward democracy is not uncommon among mainland Chinese women and men with the same level of educational achievements, then it can be safely concluded that the prospect of a free and democratic China doesn't look promising at all.

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  3. 無知的人總洧無知的語言。

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  4. I talked to several taxi drivers in mainland China. All of them criticized the government and said that the western political system is better. It seems to follow that many Chinese people even at the educational level of a taxi driver are not brainwashed by the communist party.

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  5. I work in high tech industry in US and there are many Chinese colleagues. Majority of them are from mainland china receiving their first or second college degrees in US. Many of them believe many of stories and photos from 8964 were fabricated.

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  6. Some stories were in fact fabricated. Today we know that the killings occurred in 長安街, not on the Tiananmen square; but some western media in the past said that many students were killed on the Tianmen square. What's more important, even if a person accepts the Chinese government's *empirical* claims about what actually happened, he may still think that the political system in China is unjust.

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  7. It is not surprising to see the educated Chinese couple has their opinions. Unlikely their younger counterpart, they have deeper understand of things. First, transition from one system to another has never been easy. Just look at Libya and Iraq, the society went from tyranny to anarchy. People may not have a vote before, but they had a normal life and kids could go to school and enjoyed a normal childhood. Now they may be able to vote on the their favorite local warlord, but all social services are disrupted. Second, democracy will eventually lead to socialist welfare state as politician must give out goodies to get votes. For wealthy society, this may be possible. For poorer society, when there is no goodie to pass around, politician can only stir up hatred among groups to get elected. The former Yugoslavia served as a vivid example.

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  8. 最無恥的應是我認識的一位任職於紐約的高中中文老師。她本身的美國身份是「六四血卡」賦予的,可是卻為我們「闡釋」(她自己的用語)新中國的種種好處,更辯稱美國也有不好的地方。真不明白這些人的腦袋的什麼構造。

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  9. //....誰知她接著說:「我認為那些不滿意中國統治的香港人,應該移民去英國,繼續被英國人統治。」於是,我無言了。//

    可能要問下她是否是滿意中國統治和為何她也要移民去美國?


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  10. 中文不是理性語言,故此中國人缺乏理性的高楷思維能力,只要他們的母語是漢語,在青春期間没有獨立思考訓練的話,個人的價值觀已經在十八歲前被固化,即是hard wired , 就算他們後來在美國讀大學,考取了碩士及博士,也甚少能對現代民主有認知能力,更少會去推動。

    鐘sir

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    回覆
    1. 胡說八道。

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    2. @鍾sir: 咁即閣下自認缺乏理性的高楷思維能力啦?自辱你自家列祖列宗,你家門真係有憾囉。。。

      閣下 Bloom 哥嘅粉絲呀?但 Terry 姐好似唔多同意喎。當年區潔芳大戰 Alfred Bloom,江湖好似撐區女俠多啲噃(Liu, Yeh, Choi, Nisbett, Norenzayan 等等)。。。

      不過好心喇,仲停留响八十年代,要與時並進㗎嘛。21世紀14 年代喇,唔該查下 The Linguistic Relativity Hypothesis 最新嘅發展啦(Stanford 研究佼佼者)。。。唉,out 成咁!

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    3. Horai 哥,

      唔該update 吓啦,Linguistic relativity and the Chinese language

      CHRIS ANGELIS

      Monday, March 31, 2014 - 07:52
      The Chinese language: do Feng and Joe see the same thing?

      The Chinese language has been the target of a significant number of experiments, with the purpose of examining the validity of linguistic relativity. In such an experiment, the researchers discovered that Chinese speakers relied more on vision, while English speakers relied more on phonology when it came to identifying words.

      This is not surprising, considering that each language is structured in a way that promotes each aspect respectively. In China, school children are expected to internalize more than 2500 distinct Chinese characters.

      The argument of linguistic relativity is that such a need inevitably leads to a better development of visual conceptualization and processing skills. Tests have shown that speakers of languages like Chinese, which is based on complex visual shapes, perform better in tasks involving visual memory or spatial processing.

      Another example is the difference between Chinese and English with regard to the conceptualization of verbs and action. According to the linguist James H-Y. Tai, the Chinese language is “patient-orientated,” while English is an “agent-orientated” language. In a sense, from a Chinese perspective, there is a tendency of viewing things as happening to people, while from the English perspective, there is often a tendency of placing emphasis on people doing things.

      Tests by Lera Boroditsky from Stanford University also suggest that Chinese speakers – as a consequence of the structure of the Chinese language – conceptualize time vertically, rather than horizontally.


      鐘Sir

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    4. @鐘sir: 恕我愚昧,以上英文邊隻字邊段你可以下[中文不是理性語言,故此中國人缺乏理性的高楷思維能力]結論?

      再恕我無知,Chris Angelis 係乜水?師承何方? Chris 乜水哥所言,就要照單全收?

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    5. //中文不是理性語言....// 的說法恐怕是太過簡單化和絕對化了。語言只是一種工具,是一種人們用以表達思維與溝通的工具,其理性與否相信不是取決於語言(工具)本身而是取決於使用這個工具的人。

      同一樣的語言工具,當使用它的人是理性的話,那麼通過這個語言工具所表達出來的思維與溝通相信也是理性的;而當使用它的人是不理性或缺乏理性的話,那麼通過這個語言工具所表達出來的思維與溝通相信也會是不理性或缺乏理性的。

      中國有十多億人,肯定有有理性的人,也有缺乏理性的人,相信他們都能夠通過使用同一種語言工具來表達出各自不同的理性程度。

      所以,「中文不是理性語言」的說法相信是一種只看到工具,但卻看不到使用工具的人,這樣的看法相信是表面的和膚淺的。

      中國人有其自己數千年的文化傳統和文化背景,這種傳統文化對大多數中國人都有著不同程度的影響。

      中國內地接觸外部世界比香港和台灣少,內地受到有千百年歷史的皇帝專制制度和皇朝式的「國家」文化影響也比香港和台灣深得多。皇帝制度與一個朝(代)一「國」這種專制文化的內地統治者無法理解現代沒有專制的民主國家概念與管治模式,他們仍然與中國歷代皇帝的思維一樣,認為只有自己的專制管治才是「國家安全」,所以毛澤東認為有不同意見的鄧小平是不「安全」,認為鄧小平會「亡國」;而鄧小平也同樣認為趙紫陽會「亡國」;而當每一次有這樣認為的時候中國都會出現爭權奪利的鬥爭--文革和六四就是很大一部份中國人的專制思維造成的惡果。

      如今香港回歸中國,於是也難逃內地統治者這種中國傳統專制思維一劫。在這種專制思維的影響下,連一個已經是實行「一國兩制」的地方城市首長選舉也要受到專制。如果說民主比較理性而專制不理性的話,那麼也可以看到雖然港人與內地統治者都同樣使用中文,但卻也有民主與專制,理性與不理性之分。

      相信可以說,理性與否,與語言無關,與用那種語言的人有關。


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    6. Horai 哥,

      當年,愛因斯坦的相對論,提出的時候,全世界的科學家都不同意,百般攻擊,結果幾十年後証明正確。

      真理不是以多人支持才成立!

      Horai, 請先自己找journal, 過幾日才答你。

      鐘Sir

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    7. 嗱,Terry 姐區潔芳呢,師承 Harvard, Stanford (Ph.D),家吓好似港大任教,或者 Terry 姐可以同你[學術]討論吓嘅,俾個輪佢啦!希望佢聽完你偉論後唔會笑到氣咳斷鬼咗氣。。。

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    8. Horai 哥,

      勤奮d啦,有困難,自己動手。好學唔學,學cy lueng , 自己解決唔到問題,射落人地到。

      鐘Sir

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    9. @鍾sir: 真理不是以多人支持才成立?係?即係我話乜就乜因為[真理不是以多人支持才成立]? 咁就好囉,早講吖嘛!我大把偉論本來唔敢無的放矢,但經君啟蒙,我是多慮了!

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    10. Horai 哥,

      勤奮d啦,自己動手。好學唔學,學cy leung , 解決唔到,射到人地到先得架。

      鐘Sir

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    11. @鍾sir: 政治抽埋水?哦,原來閣下係政治目的。。。使唔使咁隱晦呀?索性法輪功咁明刀吖嘛。。。嘿嘿嘿嘿

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    12. 講真,其實要研究 linguistic-cognitive relevance, 我話就應由[缺]之方向諗諗。Helen Keller 歲半就又聾又盲,但咁都俾佢發展到真係文(著作)武(activist)雙全。。。咁豐富嘅 cognitive development 寶藏,居然無人發掘。。。

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  11. 讓爱與和平,佔領北平

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  12. > 她竟問:「你們以前給英國人統治時,為何不爭取民主,現在回歸中國了,才來爭取?」

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/%E9%82%A2%E7%A6%8F%E5%A2%9E/%E6%BC%AB%E6%BC%AB%E6%B0%91%E4%B8%BB%E8%B7%AF%E6%B8%AF%E4%BA%BA%E6%B0%91%E4%B8%BB%E8%A8%B4%E6%B1%82%E7%9A%84%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2%E8%80%83%E5%AF%9F/790496967674329

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  13. 漫漫民主路:港人民主訴求的歷史考察
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/%E9%82%A2%E7%A6%8F%E5%A2%9E/%E6%BC%AB%E6%BC%AB%E6%B0%91%E4%B8%BB%E8%B7%AF%E6%B8%AF%E4%BA%BA%E6%B0%91%E4%B8%BB%E8%A8%B4%E6%B1%82%E7%9A%84%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2%E8%80%83%E5%AF%9F/790496967674329

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