tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post154029485285834432..comments2024-03-22T08:04:05.869-07:00Comments on 魚之樂: 張五常的劣譯Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-38956731221469328162017-04-03T04:09:38.357-07:002017-04-03T04:09:38.357-07:00這篇真是87分不能再高這篇真是87分不能再高bickybickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02360205443154238200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-46102405537814234162011-08-22T02:43:27.439-07:002011-08-22T02:43:27.439-07:00another question: on the part
"appeared to be...another question: on the part<br />"appeared to be a threat of an empirical test"<br />and Cheung's "受到事實驗證的威脅時"<br />To me, the translation is off somewhat. That is related to the "reformulate" part too.<br />My understanding is that to reformulate the theory or its implication for observable behavior so that no (foreseeable) empirical tests are possible. So the "empirical test" is not necessarily there already (though it can be) or even imminent, but it can just be a potential. "受到事實驗證的威脅時" sounds as if the test is there already. To me, 'threat' here sounds more like potential and the test is not (necessarily) be there. --zpdrmnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-42632710198910884012011-08-22T02:08:28.963-07:002011-08-22T02:08:28.963-07:00Mr. Wong,
I didn't read Cheung's book enti...Mr. Wong,<br />I didn't read Cheung's book entirely but read his translation (not Chinese to me) for that quote before. <br />The translations posted here are much better.<br /><br />But I have a question on the part<br />"...that theories be examined for their implications for observable behavior..." and<br />Cheung's “理論的含意要受可以觀察到的行為的審查” and others' similar but better translations for this part.<br />If the second 'for' means 'with' the translations are okay. (I doubt it.)<br />But it could be "the theories' implications for observable behavior be examined."<br />If it is latter, to me "to reformulate the theory to make the test ineffective" makes more sense and won't be so easily misunderstood as that the reformulation is 知錯而改. <br />Of course, I could be wrong.<br />To find articles with “implication for” just Google “implication for.” --zpdrmnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-45651257136549552872010-05-24T09:12:23.651-07:002010-05-24T09:12:23.651-07:00很好呀,不過尾句「勇氣」一詞,似乎太意譯了。很好呀,不過尾句「勇氣」一詞,似乎太意譯了。W. Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161244576570372004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-21950364659039210782010-05-23T22:49:37.875-07:002010-05-23T22:49:37.875-07:00參考了Meshi和王先生的翻譯, 我也試譯一下:
理論本應經過事實磨礪, 經濟學家要堅持以可觀察的...參考了Meshi和王先生的翻譯, 我也試譯一下:<br /><br />理論本應經過事實磨礪, 經濟學家要堅持以可觀察的行為驗證理論的含義, 但以往經濟學家不但沒有發掘並驗證理論的含義, 每當理論面臨事實的威脅, 經濟學家更傾向通過修改理論, 逃避驗證。這些經濟學家都沒有受挑戰的勇氣。<br /><br />這樣會不會更通暢?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-51214058950240928412010-03-30T08:26:53.990-07:002010-03-30T08:26:53.990-07:00yan:
不,我不是做翻譯的。我是中文系出身,轉唸語言學,博士論文是有關粵語音韻的課題。目前在香港...yan:<br /><br />不,我不是做翻譯的。我是中文系出身,轉唸語言學,博士論文是有關粵語音韻的課題。目前在香港某大專搵食。Meshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12656065273291410573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-24776875294730622342010-03-29T23:20:39.496-07:002010-03-29T23:20:39.496-07:00這不算什麼,更無恥的多了。這不算什麼,更無恥的多了。曉莊https://www.blogger.com/profile/01090864719671224434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-40324353625351701692010-03-29T21:37:41.172-07:002010-03-29T21:37:41.172-07:00晓庄,
學生工作,自己拿錢,有點無恥吧!晓庄,<br /><br />學生工作,自己拿錢,有點無恥吧!W. Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161244576570372004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-61740333472383227092010-03-29T19:41:43.682-07:002010-03-29T19:41:43.682-07:00有些的確是學生翻的,但導師署名,導師拿錢,出了問題自然活該。當然,有些導師自己的水平也值得懷疑。比如...有些的確是學生翻的,但導師署名,導師拿錢,出了問題自然活該。當然,有些導師自己的水平也值得懷疑。比如“常凱申”事件,假如常凱申是學生翻錯了,這個副教授自己就能翻對嗎?即使常凱申翻對了,夏志清和夏濟安的名字她能翻對嗎,我也表示懷疑。曉莊https://www.blogger.com/profile/01090864719671224434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-12527179585138691852010-03-29T18:16:42.737-07:002010-03-29T18:16:42.737-07:00Meshi:
你翻譯後的中文很有味道,你係咪做翻譯架?Meshi:<br /><br />你翻譯後的中文很有味道,你係咪做翻譯架?Yanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543452661425487649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-27887766427376951972010-03-29T08:31:08.677-07:002010-03-29T08:31:08.677-07:00Meshi,
很好,不過「就把理論改動一下,使驗證不再有效」可以理解為知錯而改,不能充分表達原文那...Meshi,<br /><br />很好,不過「就把理論改動一下,使驗證不再有效」可以理解為知錯而改,不能充分表達原文那「企圖避過測試」的意思。<br /><br />另外,「驗證」一般用來譯"verification"。W. Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161244576570372004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-70607595100162946592010-03-29T08:16:06.878-07:002010-03-29T08:16:06.878-07:00試譯:
理論本應經過事實之磨礪──必須堅定不移地以可觀察的行為來檢定理論所涵蘊的意義。過往,這些涵蘊...試譯:<br />理論本應經過事實之磨礪──必須堅定不移地以可觀察的行為來檢定理論所涵蘊的意義。過往,這些涵蘊的意義不僅沒有被發掘出來,再加以檢驗,反倒有這樣的趨勢:每當理論面臨實證之威脅,就把理論改動一下,使驗證不再有效。這些經濟學家都不渴求事實的挑戰。Meshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12656065273291410573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-41667053528472193212010-03-29T08:14:06.319-07:002010-03-29T08:14:06.319-07:00Meshi,
張教授那段翻譯應是他避居大陸前的傑作。Meshi,<br /><br />張教授那段翻譯應是他避居大陸前的傑作。W. Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161244576570372004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-44434465693756428032010-03-29T08:12:20.381-07:002010-03-29T08:12:20.381-07:00yan,
這個「跳出自己來看」的工夫其實不易。yan,<br /><br />這個「跳出自己來看」的工夫其實不易。W. Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161244576570372004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-45814777029442214232010-03-29T08:10:48.448-07:002010-03-29T08:10:48.448-07:00晓庄,
不只是翻譯,大陸有些學術著作的文字也很慘不忍睹。晓庄,<br /><br />不只是翻譯,大陸有些學術著作的文字也很慘不忍睹。W. Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161244576570372004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-13132099601722214222010-03-29T07:50:57.803-07:002010-03-29T07:50:57.803-07:00聽說大陸學術譯著的譯者不少是掛名的,真正翻譯的是那些教授譯者的學生。那些學生一來外語水平有限,而且往...聽說大陸學術譯著的譯者不少是掛名的,真正翻譯的是那些教授譯者的學生。那些學生一來外語水平有限,而且往往也敷衍了事,故有把Mencius譯成「門修斯」、Chiang Kai-shek譯成「常凱申」的新聞(http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/jw!S.Q4F.SZHxZKZMOjQ7LVSYI-/article?mid=728&prev=729&next=-1)。<br /><br />張教授避居內地日久,或許也沾染了此等惡習?Meshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12656065273291410573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-63089098510626749792010-03-29T04:34:28.244-07:002010-03-29T04:34:28.244-07:00/* 不奇怪,他讀自己的譯文時,很自然會將已有的理解讀進去,便以為譯文也明白易懂。*/
對,人的腦.../* 不奇怪,他讀自己的譯文時,很自然會將已有的理解讀進去,便以為譯文也明白易懂。*/<br /><br />對,人的腦有時就是這麼寄怪。我想,這亦表示張的"我慢"很強。Yanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543452661425487649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-26624325242971103792010-03-29T00:47:35.146-07:002010-03-29T00:47:35.146-07:00翻譯確是難事。在大陸,十本學術譯作中能找出一本好的來,算是運氣不錯了。譯作不算學術成果,不能用來評職...翻譯確是難事。在大陸,十本學術譯作中能找出一本好的來,算是運氣不錯了。譯作不算學術成果,不能用來評職稱,學者們也懶得在上面花功夫。有些所謂名家,中英文水平都頗值得懷疑。曉莊https://www.blogger.com/profile/01090864719671224434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-63908378610264916952010-03-28T23:23:17.596-07:002010-03-28T23:23:17.596-07:00yan,
不奇怪,他讀自己的譯文時,很自然會將已有的理解讀進去,便以為譯文也明白易懂。yan,<br /><br />不奇怪,他讀自己的譯文時,很自然會將已有的理解讀進去,便以為譯文也明白易懂。W. Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161244576570372004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-11648613081407858672010-03-28T23:19:02.421-07:002010-03-28T23:19:02.421-07:00//我想他看自己的譯文時,一定以為明白可解。
張是一流學者,這就很奇怪了。//我想他看自己的譯文時,一定以為明白可解。<br /><br />張是一流學者,這就很奇怪了。Yanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543452661425487649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-24884570757316843012010-03-28T19:30:42.652-07:002010-03-28T19:30:42.652-07:00yan,
我想他看自己的譯文時,一定以為明白可解。yan,<br /><br />我想他看自己的譯文時,一定以為明白可解。W. Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161244576570372004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4010478591191633760.post-42985495494625317432010-03-28T18:36:35.956-07:002010-03-28T18:36:35.956-07:00//The criterion of congruence with reality should ...//The criterion of congruence with reality should have been sharpened<br /><br />//與事實相符的準則是應該尖銳化的<br /><br />//經濟學家早就應該定出一個更嚴格的準則,用來決定怎樣才算是與事實相符<br /><br />張的翻譯似乎是逐個字譯的。以上他的翻譯很明顯不是中文,"尖銳化的準則"真是不知所謂。"嚴格的準則"則比較好理解。<br /><br />張翻譯的問題,我想不只是他不能把握時態,而是當他做翻譯時,忘記了譯出的中文要可被理解。Yanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543452661425487649noreply@blogger.com